Forum:Upgrades
General Tools of the Trade/Toolkits(?) Hazza-the-Fox 11:07, February 3, 2012 (UTC) I thought of another nice mixed upgrade- probably mid-late game; Does the following (in order of most important to least important possibilities); #Makes the Engineer and Spy amphibious (they carry inflatable boats- note, the spy will drop his disguise if he goes into the water and can only apply a new one when on land) #Allows Spy to demolish walls (thus we are depriving him of the ability to do so beforehand of course) #Allows Engineers to disarm planted bombs and remove terror drones (you lose the engineer and 200 dollars in the process- so it essentially cost you 700 dolloars, rather than potentially a more expensive unit that gained a promotion) #Possibly, garrisoning an engineer prevents sappers from being able to plant stuff on the building they are in #Possibly allows spies or engineers to gain some kind of sapper function against enemy HEAVY vehicles?? Thoughts? VolteMetalic 11:36, February 3, 2012 (UTC): The idea is good :) #Agree, thought I would keep Spy's disguise when undercover. It is really fine when you seen in RA3 a swimming Tesla Trooper :D It would make him a target both when disquised or not. #So... we didnt settled on when Spies gains the abiltiy to demolish walls? Than its fine :) #Not sure what about the bombs (as mostly when they are planted, it dont takes long for them to detoante), but for Terror Drone completely agrees. #I dont think they would be working. When Engineer will be in he structure, he will mostly dont be alone there, so no sapper could be able to reach it. #No, I dont think :) Heavy vehicles could be able to run them over before they manage to do soemthing :D Thought maybe they can have some "last act" bomb with them, and when the vehicle runs them over, it detonates, kills spy and damages the vehicle. Hazza-the-Fox 12:07, February 3, 2012 (UTC) Cheers! #I wasn't sure it was possible- in that case definitely! #I didn't forget your point about ithe spy's demolish function being too strong as a standard function- so this fixes the demolish problem quite nicely! #No probs- it could come in handy for mines and remote-detonators, possibly as something to consider #Good point- scrap that idea #Aha, that's even better! Absolutely perfect! So spy will detonate a suicide bomb if he gets run over by enemy armor (or possibly dog attack). VolteMetalic 13:26, February 3, 2012 (UTC): 2. Ahh, ok :) And I think, that it simply gives him an option to attack the gates. He msut close in and destor only one section :) 3. In thory, yes, but for mines I wont risk it :) 5. Ok :) Hazza-the-Fox 00:51, February 4, 2012 (UTC) These all sound good! In particular for 2- I must admit I really would like the ability for the Spy to handle gates better than he does walls (eg, breaking through a gate is more discrete and doesn't trigger any alarms, if possible). But he must definitely still be able to break walls- part of the idea behind the attack is that later in the game, the gates will be too well defended, and some structures (like the Battle Lab) may be walled in completely. And yes, he should only break the tiny section of wall. VolteMetalic 10:22, February 4, 2012 (UTC): The problem is, he cant break through gate unless it is opened without truly "breaking it". There is not a way that the Spy can trigger a Secondary of another unit, unless he can take control of the gate like "mind control". Hazza-the-Fox 13:25, February 4, 2012 (UTC) I suppose there is no way he can just pass through a gate like a ghost then? Not that taking full (temporary) control of the gate would be a bad thing actually- that could work!) VolteMetalic 12:14, February 5, 2012 (UTC): No, passing through the structure wont be possible. The control, it can be in theory, but if it must be like this, it have to be somehow "secret", so no nearby defenses and units starts firing into their own gate :) Hazza-the-Fox 12:47, February 5, 2012 (UTC) YES! Excellent! If that is indeed possible to code, then we must definitely go with that option. So, it could work something like this once Tools of the Trade is acquired: *If the spy attacks a normal wall fragment, he destroys it- which will be a little more noticable than hijacking the gate, obviously (whether he gets explicitly alerted he is under attack or he merely hears a dull bang if he happened to be near is something to think about. That aside, he will notice the big hole if he is looking in that direction. I think we'd also want to think about how the Spy is actually doing this- whether he 'digs through', or simply planted a discrete charge/enzime explosive on the wall. *If the spy approaches (or directly 'attacks') an enemy gate, he secretly takes control of that gate, effectively granting direct manual control to his own player without explicitly changing allegiance- this control lasts only, say, 10-30 seconds- but can be constantly renewed if the spy keeps 'attacking' it (eg masquarading as a guard). The enemy will get no alerts at all that his gate got hijacked, nor will he be alerted when the gate is opening or closing unless he happens to be looking at it. Now, I'm quite sure how this could work, but there are some possibilities as how the defending enemy player will percieve this (in order from most suspicious to least); *#The gate will only appear to retain his colors, but will ignore his commands. He will get suspicious as to why his gate is open when he distinctly remembered shutting it, but thinking nothing of it, simply does so, only to realize he can't- alerting him that his base has been compromised, but denying him any chance at all of closing his gate if the enemies are coming. *#As above, but the enemy player can still control his gate- possibly leading to some obnoxious 'clicking match' between the attacking and defending player in trying to keep the gate open or shut- which could be silly (though quite funny) *#The gate will not only superficially keep his own colors- but it will also superficially reflect the state he left it in. So if he left the gate open, and the hijacking player shuts it, it will still appear open- until he tries to pass his own units through. *#I think actually option 1 is the best- it makes the most sense and its also the 'fairest' for the defending player in that he can quickly figure out what's going on if he was mostly paying attention and happened to blink. Sorting out Upgrades VolteMetalic 14:56, February 3, 2012 (UTC): Ok, lets do this. SOVIETS #Alarm Bypass Training #Tools of the Trade #Crenelations #Aircraft Flares #Shrapnel Shower #Cerebral Stabilizers #T4 Tesla Engines #Pariah Upgrade #Uranium Shells #Propaganda?!? (horde bonus upgrade) Somethign to add for them? Like Mass Production? 'ALLIES ' #Alarm Bypass Training #Tools of the Trade #Scarab Missiles #Aircraft Flares #Harmonics #Subspace Link #"T4 prism upgrade" Again, what to add for them? Hazza-the-Fox 01:34, February 4, 2012 (UTC)Hmm, very good idea. This also lets us review the ideas we've already added. SOVIETS Tough question- what exactly DO the Soviets need now? Their Psychic and Tesla units are enhanced- they have too few radiation units in the mix, so maybe some kind of 'uranium shells' upgrade for say, the Devestator or even the Sea Reaper (adds tiny radioactive patches with each shot), could be a good idea I suppose some kind of upgrade for thier infantry- we could in particular make the Pariah a full-scale building/heavy-armor sapper/destroyer (high price upgrade), or alternatively, become amphibious so he can suicide-bomb ships. Conscripts could get some kind of 'safety in numbers' boost (like Red Guard)- or generally some better weapons. Shrapnel Shower covers Flak AND the belly-mortars on the MYK Dropship- though I'm wondering if linking these two makes that much sense. Something to think about. The Mauler could possibly get some mild upgrade if we start boosting a lot of Allied attacks. Possibly another boost for 'operative' units if they start getting killed too easily by upgraded units. ALLIES "Veteran Training" I think could be a good one to go with. I think if we were to include some kind of "infantry retraining" (or even general "unit retraining") upgrade for the Allies, then mass-production may be a good counterpart by the Soviets. Or infantry-only could counter 'Crenelations'. I'm not really sure. The Allies are a tough one to figure out- they've got upgrades for ALL their key techs (Prism, Chrono and Sonic) VolteMetalic 10:22, February 4, 2012 (UTC): SOVIETS Uranium SHells can only epxplain the increase in the firepower of the tank's and ship's shells. Dont neccesarly means they need to leave behind the radiation :) Pariahs are meant to be mass-produceable,, making him a big hitter is like reducing Devastator's price :) Amphibious sounds good, but arent they able to handle something that complex like swimming? Yeah, that would suit them. I would add it for Flak Troopers too. Agree for Shrapnel Shower. What would you give to Mauler? They are already more than normal infantry :) ALLIES I think infantry-only is good option, it would in theory give Allies ability to train Elite-grade infantry, and you will need for each type of unit one Heroic :) There are many others, like some upgrade for ships, aircraft or some heavier armor, to little counter Soviet uranium shells. Hazza-the-Fox 15:02, February 4, 2012 (UTC) Uranium Shells- that is technically exactly true (though depleted Uranium can still emit a lot of radiation and poisons- hence why environmentalist groups frown on their use). Obviously the patches would be pitifully tiny and very brief (as we don't want them stealing the Desolator's thunder)- so it fills one square for like, 2 seconds and does mild damage to everything around it (while the Desolator fills a good 2x2 with a heavy dose of sizzling gamma). That aside, they'd increase the damage of the attacks, like you said (we kill two birds with one stone this way I think). Pariahs- VERY good point- scrap the structure-boost. And funny you mention their intelligence in swimming because I had actually thought about that too. Naturally, their re-wired brains are far too scrambled for swimming, and their bombs too heavy to weigh them down in the water. But with some improved AI (and a new boyant explosive vest) they can sort-of doggy-paddle into the water for short distances- but start losing health in the water (ie drowning). They won't ever auto-attack naval units, but a Soviet commander can try his luck if he gets shelled by ships. I dunno- thought it would be funny (and a great surprise attack against ships). Horde Bonus ("People Unite"?!?) upgrade- Agreed. Conscripts and Flak Troopers it is! Perfect! Shrapnel Shower- again, a topic to re-open (as originally I was angling for a Dune "Eye in the Sky" shrapnel suicide plane, and a Flak Cannon that fired the clusterbomb airburst-mortar attack- and thus both were related to Flak as shrapnel attacks. It depends if the MYK's ground-clearer is a shrapnel weapon, or a clusterbomb. Mauler- good question. Perhaps he also benefits from Uranium shells (but WAY less radioactive than Devestator). If not that, I actually don't know what it would need, as it's quite well-rounded (and limiting the Uranium to the Devestator alone reinforces it as a 'nuclear tank'. Operatives- true. Let's forget them for now. ;) ALLIES Infantry Training- Agreed- so it requires a Heroic unit to enter the Barracks, and every time, all infantry of his type will be trained at the next level of veteracy (until they reach Heroic too). I think this is perfectly fine (as not all players will figure out how to use spies properly- and rewards players that defend or skirmish). Yep, those are good options. Hazmat suits are also a good option (for say, Medics and operatives in particular). I think could gain some upgrade to give them AA Vulcans, maybe (unless this was a veteracy bonus- so maybe not). VolteMetalic 12:14, February 5, 2012 (UTC): Dont needs to actually fills a whole square, it cna be smaller. This is not dependable on the squares :D Yeah, that can work. :) Yeah, this can actually work :D It will be funny when he will be "treading the water" :D And loosing health while in water is also great idea! More like "Nationalism", thought "People Unite" sounds fine, thoguht maybe little changed, to give it sound. I guess it could be more like a shrapnel weapon. Yeah, definitly the shells for it. Maybe something to make it faster? :) Not another nuclear upgrade, but like new oil, supercharger or something technical... No, that dont soudns fine. Hazza-the-Fox 12:27, February 5, 2012 (UTC) Aha- awesome- in that case, definitely the idea- basically the radiation radius is roughly equal to barely a square and a half in radius, while the Desolator, even at the most basic, could easily stretch out of a 4x4. Awesome! I thought you'd like it. Yeah, thought 'Nationalism' was actually a good one too- but thought it might be more appropriate as a title for the 'national draft' ability. Ok, cool. Shrapnel-based weapon it is! Hmmm, I'm still wondering whether to restrict the uranium payloads to the Devestator and Sea Reaper still- as it does make them distinct (especially the Devestator- it's easy to completely forget it is meant to be a nuclear vehicle- except when it dies!). Though on that note, I think a damage upgrade is really the only way to go for upgrading the Mauler (if it needs even that, to be honest- at the very most it would only need a boost against enemy vehicles- if for any reason than enemy tanks are the only thing it should be 'keeping up' with). SO- perhaps for Uranium shells, it only boosts the Mauler's damage, but causes fallout for the Sea Reaper- and moreso, the Devestator? VolteMetalic 12:11, February 7, 2012 (UTC): Thats overboard. To make a radiation field that big will bring Desolator into shame. A square, for all units involved. No, Nationalism isnt fitting for it, nor Natonal Draft. I would give it a name "National Reinforcements", and for this upgrade, maybe "Propaganda" or something like that, or Patriotism. The uranium shells would be giving benefits the same for all, and I think that strictly damage boost can be enough. Hazza-the-Fox 13:04, February 7, 2012 (UTC) Uranium shells- partily agree. All three vehicles should get the same anti-armor damage bonus. But I think the Mauler can be separated from the 1-square fallout bonus- for both logic that it fires far smaller shells (too small to infect such a large area), and also really only needs an anti-armor boost as it is already fairly versatile. Meanwhile, the Devestator and Sea Reaper fire larger shells, but also are geared more towards anti-tank support fire (and could use the extra area-effect bonus), and the other being an artillery unit (albiet an extremely weak one). National Reinforcements would be a good name. VolteMetalic 20:12, February 7, 2012 (UTC): Thats partially true, but in-game it doesnt matters :) The shells arent made totally of uranium, only small layer of it is, so it dont releases some insane amounts, and if one is 85mm and other is 300mm, the final result is practically the same. Hazza-the-Fox 00:40, February 8, 2012 (UTC) What if the larger shells vaporized their uranium components and circulated in the air? :P Either way- I think we can make the new upgrade section and discuss it (and move the final version to the Soviet page). On another note- the Pariah swimming upgrade, I thought of a few other possible boosts (either altogether in small doses, or only a couple from the list perhaps, as each may prove ridiculously powerful): #Further increasing its boost against structures and ultra-heavy vehicles (Devestators, Sonic Tanks) #No longer takes damage from friendly Pariahs killed in action (as opposed to minor damage it normally does) #Are much cheaper and quicker to build (say, 300), so they can form a horde unit #And on top of this, have limited amphibiousness I think that option 3 exempts options 1 or 2 as it would be way too powerful. And THAT is where our definition of a later-game pariah comes into focus; we ask what role does the Pariah better serve (as a suicide unit)? #A 'specialist' suicide unit with enhancements to anchor it as a base-siege unit and heavy vehicle counter #*note that the terror drone does serve this second purpose to an extent #A cheap horde unit (like the RA2 terrorist)? #*Note that this would be stacking with Cloning- so if the Pariah is now 300 (rather than 400) for 600 you would be getting 4 Pariahs for every Terror Drone, 6 attack dogs, 12 conscripts, or 3/4 of a Tesla Trooper. For 200 (the RA2 Terrorist), 600 would get 6 pariahs for that cost (a Pariah costs as much as a dog in other words- meaning 1 Pariah per 2 conscripts). VolteMetalic 08:34, February 8, 2012 (UTC): One of these options, I would choose 2 and 4. Reducing cost would make him more spamable, thats good so maybe also 3. But 1 no, it need to be little weak so you must spam them, not that you have an infantry unit strong like Nuke Truck :D I would go with cheap horde unit. Hazza-the-Fox 13:00, February 8, 2012 (UTC) Agreed! (see new upgrade section) So what's next on the list? VolteMetalic 16:50, February 8, 2012 (UTC): I dont know, I guess that now I have no speciifc ideas for something. Hazza-the-Fox 04:52, February 9, 2012 (UTC) In that case, I guess a count-up. The Soviets I'd say by now are nicely rounded with the 10 upgrades they have so far- I don't think any units are greatly short-changed anymore (in fact the only ground units that gain no benefits from upgrades are the Dogs, Terror Drones, V5 Launcher, Desolators, Nuke Trucks, Crazy Ivans and the hangar units outside the 'aircraft flare' upgrade- and we can always discuss these next. Same deal with some ships. For the Allies, so far they have upgrades for Prism, Chrono and Sonic tech, the Infantry Training may be an upgrade (or may simply be a standard function of the barracks, perhaps). They also have a needed upgrade for the Guardian's missile launcher (and possibly by extension, the SAMs and other missile units, possibly). So far, that leaves the Marine, SkySec, Dog, Kodiak, Mars, FlameBot, Nashorn, BattleFortress without any upgrade benefit. And I think, possibly, the SkySec and Kodiak are probably the best candidates for an upgrade- though I don't know what for the SkySec- the Kodiak I think would probably benefit from a weapon increase (likely this benefit would apply to the Nashorn too if it regards the ammunition design). VolteMetalic 12:48, February 9, 2012 (UTC):10 upgrades for Soviets? i have forgot one than. Maybe something like "incendiary ammunition", and than Mars and Skysec can benefit it too, but it will mean it is expensive and high-tier. ANd maybe something for aircrafts. Hazza-the-Fox 13:19, February 9, 2012 (UTC) number 10 was that horde-bonus upgrade for conscripts and Flak troopers Incendiary rounds is a nice touch! (makes each shell insta-kill an infantry unit- making the likes of the Kodiak (and possibly Nashorn) only limited against infantry by its slow rate of fire (while of course doing more damage to armor also) Definitely something for aircrafts- question is, what? *For Soviets- so far only their MiG seems to be a beneficiary (unless all other aircrafts can shoot flares- or the Kirov somehow benefits from the T4 Tesla upgrade (it has Tesla reactors powering its lockdown ray gun))- while MYK benefits from shrapnel shower (along with any other aircraft that use flak weapons) *Allies- same deal for flares; the Nightwing does however benefit from the Prism Upgrade. Allies Alarm Bypass Training Harmonics Hazza-the-Fox: Harmonics enhances the Sonic weapons (mainly the Sonic Tank- but also the dolphin); By manipulating the fields that suspend the soundwaves mid-flight, the waves reduce intensity when passing through friendly units and resume intensity when colliding with an enemy target. The result is Sonic weaponry is no longer a friendly fire-risk, and the energy stored from reduced intensity states allows the Sonic wave attack to be wider and do more damage. In particular *Sonic Tank, which is normally a destructive friendly-fire risk, no longer harms friendly units as its projectiles sail past- and its projectiles are now wider, and this will hit more enemies *The Dolphin can shoot slightly further, and do more damage. Also, firing at ships being attacked by squid no longer harms the ships at all. *The Mirage Commando is no longer a friendly-fire risk, and his projectiles are wider. *The Hurricane has a wider and longer cascading shockwave. Hazza-the-Fox 00:58, November 24, 2011 (UTC)I was thinking simply a bendy soundwave, or series of soundwaves. It's not really that spectacular, but it's the only sound-related imagery that would fit into a small icon. (we could place an outline of a human silhuette in the middle, to imply it travelling through- which might add an element of interest). VolteMetalic 11:16, November 22, 2011 (UTC): You forgot to add signature. Yes, this can work, like the waves becomes synchronized, making greater damage, and the guy in it being attacked by them is also great idea! :) The sound waves may be blue. Hazza-the-Fox 11:51, November 22, 2011 (UTC) Definitely blue! Agreed- I'll get to work on it. Hazza-the-Fox 10:47, November 23, 2011 (UTC) I'll get around to doing this upgrade's icon (two versions- one with a singular wave, another with a bunch of overlapping waves- see which is better). VolteMetalic 11:50, November 23, 2011 (UTC): Ok. Hazza-the-Fox 00:58, November 24, 2011 (UTC) Here it is- I experimented, but thought this did the truck just fine! (it shows the soundwave actually shrinking and passing through some guy, and expanding and resuming intensity on the other side!) VolteMetalic 11:25, November 24, 2011 (UTC): Hmmm.... I guess that can work out well :) I say YES! XD Hazza-the-Fox 12:15, November 24, 2011 (UTC)Excellent! Soviet Alarm Bypass Training Hazza-the-Fox 01:13, November 22, 2011 (UTC) Ok, the question is, what exactly should this look like? As it involves sneaking past garrisoned structures (by avoiding being visible from inside windows), and automated defense (by avoiding tripwires), there are two possible portraits; #A hand with bolt-cutters, snipping a wire leading into an alarm box #A guy crawling below a window with guards inside Although the second is more exciting and closer to the actual function, I think the first one might actually be better for a portrait as the purpose of the second thumbnail could be hard to make clear. Thoughts? VolteMetalic 09:42, November 22, 2011 (UTC): The second is more what I have in mind, but mine is: *A (black silhouette) guy crawling (on the bottom of image) below the eneemy sentry tower (probably 10-15m from him, on upper part of image), dont seeing the guy (who may have blue or red eyes, depending on the faction) witha wall in the background (directly behind tower) I will try to draw a simple image of it. Hazza-the-Fox 10:40, November 22, 2011 (UTC) Good idea. See if we can get a good form for it. VolteMetalic 11:07, November 22, 2011 (UTC): This is how I imagine it. http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3461/absupgrade.jpg Just that the guy and tower amy be larger. it is in night, so also shady, with the moon in the background. These thing around guy are bushes in which he moves,, and between him and tower thats just grass, wont need to be present on image. Now I am thinking how to make it red-tinted and blue-tinted for Soviets and Allies respectively. And, the tower has a spotlight :) Hazza-the-Fox 11:59, November 22, 2011 (UTC) Hey, very good! That could work nicely! Also, do you mean tinting for the whole image to have an overall red/blue coloration of the image itself, or a red/blue border around it? (both could work- as it is a double-sided upgrade) VolteMetalic 12:53, November 22, 2011 (UTC): Yes, something like that. Te borders will be red/blue, as well as the eyes of the guy, and the whole image will have the tint of red/blue just as well, but still keep some of the coloring of the normal image (like wooden or metallic tower, stone walls and grass in moon light. Hazza-the-Fox 00:00, November 24, 2011 (UTC) Any decisions on the icons yet? Uranium Shells Functions: *Increases anti-tank damage of the Mauler, Devestator and Sea Reaper by 25%-30% *May possibly grant Devestator and Sea Reaper ability to coat target areas with small patches of radiation/toxin. Hazza-the-Fox 01:10, February 8, 2012 (UTC)Let's discuss! Basically, in the later game, Maulers will need a boost against heavy-armor units and enemy tanks (possibly structures? or not?)- but are arguably in no need of a boost against anything else (as its semi-ok ability to attack infantry is probably fine- and gaining a roof gunner at elite further seals its superiority). That aside, against the upgraded heavy vehicle firepower, infantry will need all the reprieves they can get! Devestators, I thought about, and would normally function mostly as a jumbo-sized anti-armor/base howitzer, with a clear disadvantage to attacking infantry (this would work quite nicely in a Devestator vs Sonic Tank scenario- sealing the Devestator as the long-ranged winner against other armor, but the Sonic Tank has an easy time blasting away infantry, while the Devestator is quite vulnerable to them. It does however gain proper nuclear shells at heroic- so it eventually possesses some kind of radiation-inducing attack (and with it, ability to harm groups of infantry effectively). Question is, does it warrant a mild toxin enhancement beforehand? (on this note- we may even want to ask ourselves if we should apply this upgrade to the Cricket too- and for that matter, if we want one or both of either to double with a nice splash attack for infantry or groups of vehicles.)? Sea Reapers, serve three functions- AA, ship-combat, and shore-bombardment. As the weaker of the two combat ships (against Allied Battleship) its use of Uranium shells as an initial boost is quite clear. Its ability to bombard coasts with its long-range gun actually doesn't hurt ground targets very much at all (an initial balance to prevent players from spamming potent siege ships too early)- however, later game that could arguably be improved- so fallout could be a good compliment to its direct damage. AND- for the artwork- I figured just a picture of a tank shell superimposed over a 'radiation' symbol. VolteMetalic 08:44, February 8, 2012 (UTC): I think that the upgrade can does the same for all. And I think that it can increase the damage, and release radiation. Out of these all, Devastator is a problem as it has it included in its Heroic upgrade. Hazza-the-Fox 12:52, February 8, 2012 (UTC) Perhaps- though I worry that it may make the Mauler a little too strong against infantry this way. And I suppose a small leak of toxin from the Uranium shells can simply be a 'preview' to the radiation from its nuclear shells (and may possibly stack)? VolteMetalic 17:32, February 8, 2012 (UTC): Who cares? The machine guns wont be that strong either, they arent like scythes, only as a support weapon :) ANd the radiation in the style of uranium shells isnt that strong to kill infantry in few seconds, and it dont lasts long :) Hazza-the-Fox 04:32, February 9, 2012 (UTC) Yeah alright- see how it goes ;) VolteMetalic 12:49, February 9, 2012 (UTC): For the artwork, really some image of shells, and with a nuclear sybol in one corner. Hazza-the-Fox 13:20, February 9, 2012 (UTC) Already working on one now! Pariah Upgrade Description: Upgrades Pariahs with the following perks; #Price reduction (undisclosed) #Will take no friendly-fire damage at all from other exploding Pariahs #Limited amphibiousness (takes damage when in water due to drowning) Hazza-the-Fox 13:07, February 8, 2012 (UTC) Basically, a combination of better neural prosthesis and more effective shock therapy has resulted in cheaper Pariahs with more motor-neural functions (minus the reservation of a person who was allowed to retain their faculties) First things first; So how cheap would you want him to go? As it stands I believe he is normally 400, and I recommend either 200 (RA2 terrorist who was also clonable) or 300 (a more 'restrained' allowance, factoring in his other perks- though the cost AND accessibility of this upgrade itself may contribute to either option being acceptable). Also, what is the name/theme of this upgrade? I thought a good one is "''Psikhushka" (Psych Hospital) ''or "''Punitive Psychiatry" ''(old USSR way to handle political prisoners was to frame them as mad and mistreat them in mental hospitals- which somewhat fits the Pariah's theme). And of course- what should the appearance be? (By the way the far-right column of the red list of upgrades has invisible (or red) text, wasn't sure how to fix it). VolteMetalic 17:44, February 8, 2012 (UTC): Not sur eif the cost would be reduced. Name? Hmm... I am nto sure about these two options, but either I can think off of anything. Appearance... also no ideas. Dont worry with it :) Just delete it when you want to put something in that row. The text is here to make the tables "large", when they are empty they nearly disappear for lack of anythin in the row. Hazza-the-Fox 04:35, February 9, 2012 (UTC) How about "Punitive Surgery" or "shock therapy"??? I dunno- I guess the real question is- if we were to find a cheaper and more advanced way to apply surgery and brainwashing to a captive enemy agent- what exactly WOULD we call it? Appearance- maybe just a close-up of the Pariah's hooded face? No probs. VolteMetalic 12:56, February 9, 2012 (UTC): Surgery fits, but somehow to make it that it is better (technology), not that it is somehow cruel (which is)... maybe "Neurosurgery"? :) Yeah, and with glowing eyes! XD Hazza-the-Fox 13:21, February 9, 2012 (UTC) "Drastic Neurosurgery?"/ "Unorthodox Neurosurgery"? Definitely agree with appearance! Cerebral Stabilizers VolteMetalic 11:18, November 20, 2011 (UTC): It is really good image, maybe just two things: #The head might be higher, there is a lot of free space on the top. #It might be more red for my taste, but it is just my personal wish, which isnt that important. Dont count it. Just the first point should be sovled and this image will be great to use :D Hazza-the-Fox 00:29, November 21, 2011 (UTC) No probs #Will do #I could change the border to red- otherwise I opted for the hot-pink and violet that I've attached as the 'theme color' to Psi energy. Besides, the player will know it's related to the Soviets anyway (aside from only getting it in the Soviet menu). VolteMetalic 11:11, November 21, 2011 (UTC): *Can you make it more higher? That the head is actually in the center of the icon? *Yes, I understand the choice of purple-pink. I see the "psyonic energy" also as purple-pink :) Its just that I am dragged by RA3 theme, where Soviet icons have a red "aura" in them, really implying it is Soviet. In the similar way I meant it here. Maybe the borders and area around them (so into the picture) might have a red "aura", if you understand me. Hazza-the-Fox 11:43, November 21, 2011 (UTC) Nah, I might leave it as-is; as it is there is an aura wrapping around the head, and I think it'll work better that the individual upgrades are more visually separated from the other. On the flipside, I think I'll probably work with red/blue hues for most of the other upgrades, but it might work for the 'ultra' Tier 4 upgrades to have their own separate color (they are "so outrageous they don't even follow the rules" kind of implication) On that note- I think I've got a good formula for upgrades: *Normal upgrades, available Tiers 1-3, generally only affect one aspect of specific units in areas they may fall short on later game (the Guardian's missiles could be such a candidate). *Ultra-upgrades (mostly Tier 4) either remove huge liabilities or grant massive enhancements for super-units, or enhance several units with extreme enhancements (Cerebral/Psionic Stabilizers being one). VolteMetalic 12:33, November 21, 2011 (UTC): Hmmm... I think that all upgrades might have the color separation, only in different degree. than Cerebral Stabilizier is set :) Hazza-the-Fox 01:13, November 22, 2011 (UTC) Excellent!